Sunday, March 18, 2018

March 18, 2018, Bob Brinker's Moneytalk: Stocks, Bonds, Economy and Investing

March 18, 2018....Bob Brinker hosted  Moneytalk live today....(comments welcome)


STOCKS....The only time that Brinker mentioned the stock market today was when he said to only invest what you are comfortable with - and can still sleep well at night.  

Honey EC: It is beginning to  look like - barring any new exogenous events - that Brinker missed the bottom of the 10% correction. That would be a total non-event, except that he  sent out a "special bulletin" on February 12th saying that he was looking for an opportunity to issue a new "buying-opportunity."  For that, he was looking for a re-test of the lows, and to continue to "dollar-cost-average on weakness."  

However, in the March issue of Marketimer, Brinker wrote:  "It remains to be seen whether the correction activity that commenced in late January will eventually lead to a confirmed buying opportunity, including the process of successfully testing the area of the initial lows. It is important to note that the timeline for a correction and retest can vary from several weeks to several months."

Honey here: Does anyone buy that?

==> EDIT: dRahme Audio Clip: FOMC Meeting; Rate Hikes; SSA; Price Indexes

VANGUARD AND FIDELITY....WHY NOT SCHWAB?   Several times again today,  Brinker recommended Vanguard and Fidelity's total stock market funds.   He talked about the low expense fees and how great the funds are for long term objectives. He never once included Schwab. One has to wonder why not, because every time he is asked on the air, he states that "Chuck" is his friend and has been on Moneytalk as a guest. 

BRT (blog research team) member, Robert,  did some research  this afternoon and found that not only do Schwab's index funds charge lower fees, they perform better. I cannot get his graphic to post, but here is the data: 

Robert wrote:  "Here’s the performance of the Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund, SWTSX, compared to the Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Idx Inv, VTSMX......

Note that the Schwab fund has beaten the Vanguard fund in EVERY time period from one day to 15 years. That’s pretty amazing. Since the Schwab fund has an expense ratio of 0.03% and the Vanguard fund has an expense ratio of 0.15%, the Schwab fund has a big advantage which is seen in the total returns.

That makes it even more surprising that Brinker recommends Vanguard and Fidelity but doesn’t mention Schwab......Vanguard’s Admiral share class has an expense ratio of .04%, so it’s very close, but you have to invest $10,000 to get that." 

FOMC WILL RAISE INTEREST RATES IN JUNE, SEPTEMBER AND MAYBE DECEMBER....BB said that he rates the chances of a rate increase of 0.25% next Wednesday at 100%.   He expects at least two more this year, and maybe one more in December....In order to get to 3% on Federal Funds rates, we need 3 more hikes next year - if the economy continues to grow. 

INFLATION: CPI VS PCE....Brinker commented that the correct index to use for inflation is the one that the Federal Reserve uses - the Personal Consumption Expenditures Index - not the CPI.  The CPI is used to calculate Social Security cost of living increases and that causes the increases to be much too high.

SOCIAL SECURITY COLA'S-ARE ALL THE IDIOTS IN WASHINGTON, BOB?  Brinker said:  "They are overpaying Social Security recipients......But there is a lot of idiocy in government as you have learned over your lifetime. This is one more example of the idiocy in the federal government.....This is what we have to work with. We have to go with what we have. And if Washington is populated with idiots, well, it is what it is."

==> EDIT: dRahme Audio Clip: Housing; Retail Sales

SAVINGS....BB comments:  Everyone should begin saving at least 10% of their income early on or they may end up dependent on Social Security. 

BANKRATE. COM ARTICLE....BB FALSELY  claimed that a "Bankrate article" said that "trickle down wasn't working.    Here is the article:  Despite an Improving Economy, 20% of Americans Aren't Saving Any Money    BB then went on to make a quote or two from the article without giving credit. I will quote it and also give credit. The following are excerpts from Bankrate.com:

"A rising tide isn’t lifting all boats. The unemployment rate rests at a post-recession low, stocks flirt with all-time highs and paychecks are perking up in recent months thanks to a slight increase in wages and the implementation of the GOP tax bill. Consumers are as confident as they’ve been in two decades.....

....And yet, one-fifth of Americans are adding nothing to their savings, according to a Bankrate survey. Why not? Among respondents, 2 in 5 cite life’s high expenses, while another 1 in 6 blame their crummy job. 

WHAT'S KEEPING PEOPLE FROM SAVING: Among respondents, 20 percent said they aren’t saving anything or don’t have an income. Another 47 percent are saving 1 to 10 percent, and 27 percent are saving 11 percent of their income or more.

Expenses are the biggest obstacle, with 39 percent of the respondents citing this as the main reason they’re not saving. Sixteen percent said their job isn’t good enough, while an equal amount said the main reason they aren’t saving more is because they haven’t gotten around to it. 

ECOMOMIC NEWS:  Employers added 313,000 to payrolls in February, keeping the unemployment rate at recent low of 4.1 percent, while more people returned to the labor force."
Despite a dramatic two-week plunge six weeks ago, the S&P 500 index is up 4.1 percent so far in 2018, after gaining 21 percent last year, pushing 401(k) balances to record levels. Home prices are skyrocketing, while consumer confidence is at the highest point since 2000. 
In fact, the stock market fell off at the end of January because investors were so worried that rising wages would lead to much higher inflation levels. (Wage growth was more modest in February.)

Meanwhile, the personal savings rate has trended downward over the past two years, while credit card balances have jumped to all-time highs. A separate Bankrate survey found that 39 percent of Americans wouldn’t pay for a $1,000 unexpected expense from their savings account.

The average American has less than $5,000 in a financial account, a quarter to a fifth of what you should have, and those aged 55 to 64 who have retirement savings only carry $120,000 – which won’t last long in the absence of paychecks." 

Honey EC: As you can see from reading those excerpts, Brinker's PHONY conclusion about that article either shows immense ignorance or wild-eyed need to LIE in order to discredit President Trump and the GOP congress. 

TWO THINGS THAT WERE NOT SAID TODAY:

==>   No mention that Larry Kudlow, who in the past has substituted for Brinker on Moneytalk, has been chosen by President Trump to be the next White House Economics Advisor. It's been many years since Kudlow was on Moneytalk (maybe some old-timers will remember how long), but he was always everyone's favorite replacement for Brinker. 

==>  Not a single word about letting the guest  last week speak about the President with hateful and vicious name-calling that one would only expect from a mentally-ill person. 

FRANKJ'S MONEYTALK GUEST-AUTHOR SUMMARY

Bob’s third hour guest this Sunday March 18, 2018 came to us from across the pond.  Jonathan Haskel, author of “Capitalism Without Capital: The rise of the intangible economy.” The guest is a Professor of Economics at the Imperial College in London.  Stian Westlake is a co-author on the book.  
We learned a new term today, “Big Bananas,” synonymous “a big deal” used by the guest to describe the importance of the rise in investments in intangibles.   Intangible assets are things like branding, software, apps, marketing and design.  The authors estimate that for every dollar US companies invest in “tangibles” they invest $1.15 in intangibles.  
Some companies find it easy to take the intangible route.  Uber was given as an example.  Set up an app, engage some freelancers to drive and they’re on their way.  Compare that to a traditional taxi company that has to acquire its own vehicles, etc. etc.   Amazon did much the same, stealing a march on traditional malls. 
Bob asked whether it was important to be first in the intangible world.  He seemed to think it was important but the guest was gracious and said he disagreed but didn’t want to contradict Bob on his own show.   Bob was all peaches and cream, saying “that’s what it’s all about,” (disagreement).

Bob asked what I will start calling “the college question,” namely, what course of study would you advise a young person to take in college?  The guest hedged around and mentioned a few majors, non-technical ones, and concluded by saying that in the intangible economy, people need skills in coordinating groups within the company.   To be successful at this you need to be a people person.
MoneyTalk “trekkies” knew what was coming next.  Bob asked the guest to describe the higher education system in the UK.  This was a precursor to Bob making a comparison to the same in the US.  
·         The UK admissions are merit based.
·         High school exams are administered nationally
·         It is hard to squeeze into the top schools.
·         Students get generous support from the government.
·         They have a very long time period to pay the loans back with forgiving terms.
Frankly, these characteristics don’t sound all that different from how it is in the US.  Maybe the difference is how “generous support” is defined.   Bob pointed out that there were many in the US who want to attend college but are unable to because of a lack of funds.  
There followed a little discussion about the neighborhood disruptions caused by AirBnB another example of an “intangible” company.   
After the half-hour break there was some navel contemplation that I didn’t pay much attention to.  Then Bob got back a topic he sometimes brings up with guests:  Guaranteed Minimum Income (aka Universal Basic Income).  The guest was very clear that he doubted it would happen in Europe because it is “very, very expensive.”   
Bob asked where is the world headed with so much debt and borrowing?  The guest said economists believe “as long as we get the growth to pay it back …”  
Bob said the thought here in the US is to just pay the interest, no one is thinking about paying it (the debt) down.  
The growth rate of the US economy is another subject Bob often asks guests about.  “Why has the US had a low growth rate for so long?”  The guest said the answer to that has eluded most economists, then he went on to speculate on the difficulty in measuring GDP today, when intangibles are part of the economy.  A second reason he offered was that when an economy is adapting to new drivers, it could cause a pause in growth.  Bob said bean counters are missing “free stuff” like apps.  
Bob guided the guest to make a comment on the two traditional drivers of economic growth:  population growth and productivity growth.  The guest only commented on Europe’s situation:  growth in population has been held down …. then he mentioned immigration.   Yeah, immigration in Europe is a double edged sword.  
There were no calls during today’s third hour.  If you dozed off during the interview you are excused, it certainly did not have the fireworks of the one two weeks ago.  

Listen Live: 710Knus


125 comments:

Trees said...

I'm confused with Brinker's advice, "fed leadership are idiots". What is he referring to or quoting? Is he qualified to make such a statement? If so maybe Trump should have picked this guy instead of Kudlow. I did listen to Kudlow spell out his experience, very thorough and impressive. Brinker claimed the fed screwed up with refinancing national debt. Maybe someone should call and alert them to BB intelligence? If everyone in fed leadership are idiots, this guy must be an Einstein.

Honeybee said...

.
Trees...Brinker did say that everyone in Washington DC are idiots.

It must be wonderful to live up there in the altitude where the super-intellects like Brinker live.

Bluce said...

Trees, I'm confused by your post. What does Kudlow have to do with this?

"This guy" . . . which guy?

"He" . . . who is "he"?

rjb112 said...

Brinker just suggested the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund and then Fidelity's total market index fund.

Why doesn't he also recommend the Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund, SWTSX ?
The expense ratio is only 0.03%, it has a Morningstar Analyst Rating of Gold, and there is no minimum to invest in the fund.

Per Morningstar: "In February 2017, Schwab also removed the fund’s 2% redemption fee (assessed on any sales made within 30 days of purchase) and minimum investment requirement."

and "Schwab U.S. Broad Market ETF SCHB tracks a similar index for the same price"

The Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Idx Inv VTSMX requires a minimum investment of $3,000 and has an expense ratio of 0.15%.

Robert

Honeybee said...

.
Larry Kudlow was always the favorite Moneytalk fill-in back when Brinker had fill-ins and didn't play re-runs.

So far at the end of the first hour, he has not mentioned the fact that Kudlow is the President's choice for his new Economics Advisor.

Honeybee said...

.
Robert...I counted four separate times during the first hour that Brinker touted Fidelity and Vanguard, with never once mentioning Schwab.

His bias is appalling. Because as you said, Schwab is actually less expensive.

Bluce said...

I was going to also comment on his avoidance of Schwab's total SM index (which is my main stock holding), but I see others already have.

So let me go out on a limb, as to why Bobby avoids ever mentioning Schwab, who supposedly "is a friend of mine."

Charlie must be a Republican.

Honeybee said...

.
Bluce: BINGO. I don't know what Party Bob's "friend" Chuck, belongs to, but he has made some appearances on TV this past week singing the praises of some of President Trump's economic moves.

And BTW: Since Brinker keeps hammering on how "Chuck" is his friend, I'm happy that he doesn't call me a friend. Yikes!

SW said...

How far back in time must one search to find Kudlow as a guest host on BB's show? I have listened to BB for many, many years and heard several guest hosts there, but never Kudlow.
Since BB's guest hosts were generally pretty vanilla, it is hard to believe that Kudlow would crack that line-up.
Was it perhaps so long ago that Kudlow was then much less outspoken and more apolitical ?

rjb112 said...

Honeybee said...

Robert...I counted four separate times during the first hour that Brinker touted Fidelity and Vanguard, with never once mentioning Schwab.

His bias is appalling. Because as you said, Schwab is actually less expensive.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I would think Brinker would recommend the fund especially to people just starting out, and those that don't have the minimum $3,000 that it takes to get into the Vanguard fund.

You can actually get into the Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund, SWTSX, for an investment of $1. One dollar. That's a big advantage.

Robert

Bluce said...

Honey: "Ha" on being a FOB (Friend of Bob).

I didn't know that Charlie made any public appearances like you noted. Cool! (I don't have cable, so I never see any of those shows).

Trees said...

Why does Brinker mock the trickle down effect with the premise that it doesn't work given the recent data on a large portion of population not saving much? He later states the problem is our education system. That is no secret within conservative think tanks. Our education system have been wholly corrupted by closed market no compete government control.

One of Kudlow's guests was speaking of benefits of open market competition and folly of blanket tariffs to protect inefficient industries. He urged Kudlow to communicate the benefit to current administration and to urged the point that lower regulations environment will improve the countries economic might. A few examples of unintended consequences such as low IPOs and more private companies given the regulation burdens. This phenomena is lowering opportunities of citizens to gain wealth and invest in business.

The trickle down effect will lift your boat in a rising tide. Business expansion will create jobs. There is no limit on wealth. This concept was discussed and the thought of micro economic factors are powerful. As example the chilling effect of regulations to destroy jobs and wealth. Good education to encourage wealth accumulation and take risks. Environment that encourages invention and business startup. The thought was the U.S. capitalistic system of wealth accumulation is more important factor than the burden cost of national debt. We would do better with less debt cost, though.

Honeybee said...

.
Brinker has no idea that there are people just starting out who don't have enough to meet the Vanguard Funds for affluent people (I can't think what they are called) - or that some just starting out don't have the $3000 minimum.

Brinker has had at least four multi-millionaire today. One wanting advice on the $200,000 he has invested for his 9 and 12 year old grandchildren's education. Of course, Brinker was all ga-ga about that and got on his own bragging soapbox.

Honeybee said...

.
SW....I'd have to research and see if I could find anything on my oldest blog, but I think it was so far back that it was on my Suite 101 message board the Brinker got them to wipe out and then forbid me from writing about him - after Kirk Lindstrom left.

I don't recall it being very often - and may have only been a couple of times. But over the years, many have wished that Brinker would bring him back.

Honeybee said...

.
Trees....To put it as kindly as possible, Brinker was not being truthful about that article.

I am covering it in the summary.

KC said...

Anyone clarify what Vanguard fund the gentleman in the first hour called about that was paying near 4%? The caller said he had the VTI but was looking for more income than the 1.6% it was paying. I can't find any Vanguard funds paying near 4% except for long term bond funds....which we all know are risky right now.

Bob mentioned a Bank Rate article indicating trickle down economics is not working because people are not saving as much. I'm not sure if rate at which one saves is the only indicator of trickle down economics. Could it just mean they are spending more on "things" and are not good savers. Wouldn't surprise me that the millennial generation are not good savers with their instant gratification attitudes.

Final question......the rate of fed increases are always referred to by .25%. Can they, or have they, ever raised them at a higher rate......such as .5%?

Thanks All

Anonymous said...

Are there any idiots in Las Vegas (or Henderson)?

Pavlov’s Cat

Honeybee said...

.
Pavlov's Cat....I hear there is at least one in Littleton, Colorado.

Unknown said...

KC I believe the caller was talking about the Vanguard Managed Payout Fund. I think it is a mutual fund invested in equities and fixed incom and pays out the 4% to you. Much the same as selling part of your portfolio and taking 4% per the ubiquitous 4% rule. I would have told the guy to mix in some Reits and Dividend ETFs and maybe some individual stocks to boost yield. Bob did t I dint believe suggest that.

rjb112 said...

KC said..

Final question......the rate of fed increases are always referred to by .25%. Can they, or have they, ever raised them at a higher rate......such as .5%?
++++++++++++++++++++
KC,

the first example below, from 2007, shows that they have lowered rates by .5%, and the second example shows that they can raise them .5% too. I don't know this, but my guess is that they can raise or lower them by as much as they want.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/business/19fed.html
"In reducing its benchmark interest rate by an unusually large one-half percentage point, to 4.75 percent from 5.25 percent....."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-watchers-scoff-at-speculation-of-half-point-rate-hike-next-week-2018-03-14
"Probabilities of U.S. central bank interest-rate moves tracked by the Atlanta Fed regional bank suggest investors see an 11% chance of a 50-basis point rise at next week’s rate-policy meeting."

Robert

tfb said...

It was written:

Brinker just suggested the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund and then Fidelity's total market index fund.

if you are in taxable those two funds are not even close to equivalent. I do not like Vanguard's customer service (or lack there of) but their fund is superior to Fidelity;s in the taxable space as it is relatively tax inefficient when compared to Vanguard. If you are a Fido person as I am, use ITOT instead.

tfb

frankj said...

I think that caller who mentioned the managed payout fund said part of what is paid out is a return of capital. So, it they target 4% and the investment earnings don't get them there .... People would invest in this if they want a pretty much guaranteed dollar amount it seems.

Biker said...

KC asked: "Final question......the rate of fed increases are always referred to by .25%. Can they, or have they, ever raised them at a higher rate......such as .5%?"

Here is a chart showing the recent history of the Federal Funds Rate:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DFEDTAR

Click on "Max" to see the entire date range. Yes, rate increases can be more than 0.25%, but I believe they have not used a larger step increase since the year 2000. They seem to use baby steps so that the ripples they cause in the financial markets do not become tsunamis.

Many times the step decrease has been much larger than 0.25% (see 2007-2008, for example).

Bluce said...

FED rate changes: A few years ago people were talking (was it on Bobby's show?) about why can't they raise it LESS than .25%? The worry was to get off ZIRP so at least they had some wiggle room to go back down if necessary, and moving up at only .10% (or whatever it was) increments wouldn't be enough to spook the markets.

FWIW, AFAIK, the FED can do anything they want.

House Doc said...

Regarding Vanguard customer service, save up and when you reach Flagship level it is superb. I have an assigned rep that is very responsive to calls and emails.

tfb said...

Not to be political, because it is not, it is a statement of reality, but when all is said and done, Donald Trump will likely go down in the top 6 of significant Presidents. Notice I said significant not greatest (though I also think the latter to be true - and yes that part is a political statement).

In no particular order I would say the most signification U.S. Presidents have been:

Washington
Andrew Jackson
Teddy Roosevelt
Donald Trump
Lyndon Johnson
Abraham Lincoln
(honorable mention to James Polk)

If you look at the above list you can see it was not formed with political bias. The only reason I posted this in this forum is to have a place to record my prognostic abilities.

tfb

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Honeybee said:
"Brinker has had at least four multi-millionaire today."


More "plants" again today, eh?

I think the "less than millionaire" class should start self-identifying their status as "I'm a poor schlub", "I'm a workin stiff", etc.

Again I ask - why did all of these "millionaires" suddenly sprout up beginning 6 months ago?

Oh, and assuming they are legit (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!) why are they calling Bobby? I mean come on - let's get real!

IMO - these "millionaires" could get better financial advice from Clarabell the Clown (who was the mute partner of Howdy Doody).

JC

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Honeybee - All:

Was there any mention today regarding the ant-Trumpite interview? Any self-reflection? Any apologies?

JC

Unknown said...

How much for flagship?

Unknown said...

I didn’t hear it

Anonymous said...

House Doc is right. I think Vanguard has fantastic customer service. I also have an assigned representative and even if I don’t call them they call me once a year. I must also say that I was impressed with them a few months ago when the market tanked and and I tried to transfer money to purchase more index fund shares. The Vanguard website and app were down that day, as were the other large firms (as reported on business sites the following day). I sent a two sentence feedback via the app at the time, and the next day I received a call from Vanguard apologizing for the glitch. They did mention that this happened to several other firms but said, “that’s no excuse and we will make it right for you, we appreciate you as a customer.” They took my word for how much I wanted to transfer and they honored that trade and about four days later the transaction showed up. No legal forms, no hassle, no BS, no nothing except great old fashioned customer service. I HIGHLY recommend Vanguard. Rob

tfb said...

Regarding Vanguard customer service, save up and when you reach Flagship level it is superb. I have an assigned rep that is very responsive to calls and emails.

I disagree. I have flagship at Vanguard since 2004, in my experience based opinion Vanguard is a 4th tier firm in regard to their customer service. They are head and shoulders the worst company for customer service I have experienced in my now 37 years of investing. It is not just that their service is poor, but the inaccuracy of the information they dispense, coupled with their I do not care that what I told you is wrong attitude, combined with their inability to correctly render a cost basis is just unbelievable. In other words it is the content that is the problem.

tfb said...

Flagship is 1 million.

At that level at Fidelity you are Private Client and the service is astounding. I have a more modest holding at Schwab (thanks Hottiebee) and the service is also outstanding. Scottrade (now TD Ameritrade) had outstanding service also.

tfb

Anonymous said...

John from SF said:

I wonder if Brinker is miffed that Kudlow got the job offer instead of him.

tfb said...

For clarity, I wrote:

I have a more modest holding at Schwab (thanks Hottiebee)

What I meant to convey was several years ago I asked the delectable Hottiebee about Schwab and she vouched for their customer service. I did not mean to imply she did something to diminish my holdings. After I posted it, I realized you could read it more than one way.

tfb

Honeybee said...

.
John from SF....If President Trump would have so much as whispered Brinker's name, I would have seen that he personally was given a clip from Moneytalk two weeks ago, and the what Brinker let the guest say about him.

Biker said...

Regarding whether the stock market correction activity that commenced in late January is over, I would point out that we have not reached a new closing high in the S&P500, so it is possible that the present market action could still end up as a failed rally. The most recent corrective period in which BB ultimately declared a buying opportunity (August 2015 - February 2016) extended over more than five months.

Bluce said...

BROKERS: Schwab is one of the most well-run businesses I've ever come across (another is MSC Industrial Supply, nothing to do with investing).

I had one of my VG holdings at VG for a while, but moved it back to Schwab. I did NOT like the customer service at VG, plus they have restrictive hours. I can call Charlie 24/7.

Anonymous said...

Honeybee,

Outstanding write-up and many thanks for doing this each and every week!! Arthur

BWV said...

In 30+ years, Vanguard has served my family very well over countless transactions, account transfers, account openings, funds transfers, etc. Becoming part of Flagship has raised the bar even higher.

I've had very good service from Fidelity & Bank of America as well.

Anonymous said...

Just a gut re-action with a beer in one hand and a keyboard in the other, while two earbuds blare Merle... maybe good friend Chuck Schwab asked BB to kindly not mention his firm within the context of "the show".

Seems that BB honored his buddy's request.
-Vic, Las Vegas NV

burt said...

I have found Vanguard customer service to be excellent. Fidelity not so much. Although I don't recall specifically I do remember in talking to Fidelity I was wondering whether my daughter when she was 12 could have done better?

Steven said...

Honey mentioned the $3k minimum for Investor Shares at Vanguard. There is no need just purchase the ETF version $VTI. It has the same low cost basis as the Admiral and the only minimum is one whole share about $145 currently. I did that for my rIRA. You can only buy whole numbers of shares though.

House Doc said...

Expense on my VG VTSMX is 0.04, Schwab only shows the higher fee for a lower balance on their commercial. Use a broker you like and don't worry. Not everyone likes Ford or GM cars either!

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Honeybee said:
"BB said that he rates the chances of a rate increase of 0.25% next Wednesday at 100%".


Honeybee - not to quibble with Bobby and just to clarify, the announcement would be made this Wednesday, on 3/21/18.

https://goo.gl/CFA26X

JC

Mad as HELL ! said...

Honeybee said:
"Brinker said: "They are overpaying Social Security recipients......"


Huh? I think we would find "a few" folks who disagree with that statement - probably about 99.9% of the population!


frankj said...

I'm working with someone to straighten out their bond funds.

VBILX a Vanguard index bond fund, duration 6.43 and a trailing 12 month yield had lost 2.04% in net asset value in the past 12 months.

VFICX, a managed Vanguard fund, 68% corporate bonds has lost 2.06% over 12 months. 5.62 duration and a 2.9% yield.

VBTLX, a Vanguard index total bond market fund. 2.61% yield, 6.11 duration. Lost 1.5% in value over 12 months.

Recommendation? Move to a CD ladder. The downtrend in these funds will continue in my opinion. With CDs you don't fight the duration boogeyman or the expense ratio. What about an ultra short term bond fund? Vanguard's admiral ultra short term fund has a yield of 1.6% and an expense ratio of 0.12%. Duration 0.93. It lost 0.4% over the last 12 months. A ladder going out 1 year will get you a slightly better yield.

One piece of actionable advice rendered by Bob yesterday was to a caller telling her to wait until after this week's FOMC meeting and put her ladder together. He said rates on CDs would go up.

Honeybee said...

.
Hi Jerrod....Just to clarify, unless I put something in quotes, I am paraphrasing.

So Brinker may not have used the words, "next Wednesday" instead of "this Wednesday."

I'll take the blame (credit?) for that.

SAS said...

Thanks for the audio clip of Brinker's guest's Trump critique. I realize that it is politically incorrect here to state so, but all those paying attention should really have to admit that the guest, in making such statements, is in good company and better company as each day passes. Also he did not say that Trump IS Hitler or Mussolini, but that Trump seemed to likewise aspire to being a dictator based on Trump's own statements. .

Honeybee said...

.
SAS...So you like that kind of hatred as long as it is directed at a President that you don't agree with.

Also, I will write very slowly, and hope I don't offend you or those who are in your "good" company:

To say that Donald Trump "aspires to being a dictator" IS A BALD-FACED LIE.

It is contemptible to claim that his "own statements" prove your point, unless you have an IQ about your shoe size - again, no offense.

President Trump was making a joke about the Chinese election. His audience got it, I got it - and as I said, so did anyone else who is above LYING about his intentions.

No offense, I have some good company on this viewpoint.

Now get lost!

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Honeybee,

After posting that alleged time irregularity I discovered that it is not a worldwide convention - so I too will take some blame/credit.

From TimeandDate.com:

The 7-day week is the international standard week (ISO 8601) used by the majority of the world.

Starts Monday or Sunday

According to international standard ISO 8601, Monday is the first day of the week. It is followed by Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Sunday is the 7th and final day.

Although this is the international standard, several countries, including the United States, Canada, and Australia consider Sunday as the start of the week.

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/days/


JC

Honeybee said...

.
Note to all: With thanks to him, I have added two dRahme Audio Clips to the summary.

Anonymous said...

It was many years ago that Larry substituted for Bob. Perhaps ABC used it as a test for Larry’s ultimate show on WABC radio. Larry ran it differently than Bob, with more guests interspersed among the questions. I remember the always courteous Mr. Kudlow being especially deferential when Bob’s name came up.

Unknown said...

Honeybee, i enjoy your site and the comments you make. On the Bankrate article, I drew a similar conclusion as BB....namyly trickle down has not worked.

On the economy, it is terrific. But lets be honest, it has been on an upward trajectory for 8-9 years. If you want to credit Trump for the past year, then you have to credit Obama for the prior 8 years of growing economy.

Cheers and thank you.

Honeybee said...

.
Andre Hassid....Please point out to me where "trickle down" is mentioned in that article. I have read it three times. They state that people are not saving, and give this as the reasons - direct quotes:

WHAT'S KEEPING PEOPLE FROM SAVING: Among respondents, 20 percent said they aren’t saving anything or don’t have an income. Another 47 percent are saving 1 to 10 percent, and 27 percent are saving 11 percent of their income or more.

Expenses are the biggest obstacle, with 39 percent of the respondents citing this as the main reason they’re not saving. Sixteen percent said their job isn’t good enough, while an equal amount said the main reason they aren’t saving more is because they haven’t gotten around to it.


What is it that says "trickle down" to you?

Also, your logic about giving Obama credit for the prior 8 years. Sure, the economy was barely in the plus column over all that time - even with the Fed's constant assistance.

Are you aware that since Trump was elected, the Fed has raised interest rates about 5 times? And they are pulling back liquidity. You don't think there is any political bias in the Fed, do you? Nahhh....

KC said...

Right on Honey. I will add to your "trickle down" point that with the recent Trump tax cuts, the nozzle was just turned on, so the trickle has really just begun (no thanks to ANY democrats).

So Andre, give it more than a few months to see if it actually works. After all, we gave Obama 8 years and lots of free stimulus money.

Anonymous said...

Once again, B.B.I. (Brinker Blows It)

During the first hour on Sunday, the very concise Mary from Orlando calls (minute 30:45 On-Demand) to ask Bob about her daughter's 403b which offers a negotiated (with Vanguard) S&P 500 Index fund with an expense ratio of 0.02! Currently, the daughter is utilizing the Total Stock Market fund in the 403b with an expense ratio of 0.15. Mary's question is: Should her daughter switch?

Mary states these facts at least twice to Blob but he can't see past the fog of his own advice to realize the good deal. He starts to bluster about how "Anyone can buy the Total Market fund for 0.04", not mentioning that those are Admiral class prices, and totally ignoring that it's not available in the 403b! Mary said 0.15 was the price for the Total Market!

But Mary sounded pretty sharp and realized the futility of the conversation, and thus bowed out gracefully like a true lady.

When I listen to Brinker turn diamonds into coal, it makes me wonder if he's lacking proper nutrition or possibly somewhat dehydrated, or maybe smoking too many cigars in the sports book over at the "M" Casino Resort in Hendoo-town.

The feeling is akin to the marketing tag line for the movie "Billy Jack" circa early 1970's when the character Billy Jack states reluctantly, "Sometimes, I just go berserk!" and all kinds of mayhem ensues.
-Vic, Vegas again

Honeybee said...

.
Vic, Vegas.....I certainly enjoyed your great comments.

Since you likely visit some of the same places that Brinker does, do you ever see him hanging around the blackjack tables?

Honeybee said...

.
KC....President Trump's detractors never mention the innumerable checks that have already been gifted to employee's from various companies. I certainly call that "trickle down" and was totally unexpected.

Also the lifting of vast number of regulations that have spurred hiring, and the return of companies bringing good jobs into the US.

Also, millions have already gotten off of food stamps since he took office.

Obviously, there are a lot of people that will not do the best thing for themselves by saving money - kinda like leading a horse to water and they refuse to drink.

But likely, most of them are now paying bills they haven't been able to pay before - give them time.

Bluce said...

Trickle-down Liberty:

Trump Regulations: Federal Register Page Count Is Lowest In Quarter Century.

Honeybee said...

.
Thanks Bluce....Great information - and stunning!

Unknown said...

Can someone please give me their best estimate of what Bob means by:
"dollar-cost-average on weakness"
I am sorry, but I thought on dollar cost averaging, you would put the same amount of money in on, for example, the same day of every month.

Does this mean, when the market is down 5 percent put x amount of money in. Then when it is down 10 percent put the equal x amount of money in, and down 15 percent put the same amount of........I can't figure out what "dollar-cost-average on weakness" could actually mean.

HELP Please
LTS

Honeybee said...

.
Josette....Your comments about Charles Schwab are ridiculous!


Unknown said...

Yes Honeybee. Those quotes you had that people cant save enough money because their expenses are high, etc. translates to trickle down not working. If it worked they would have more money and would be able to save more. The fact they did not use the words “trickle down” does not mean someone cant draw that inference from the article.

And no I dont think the Fed is being political. They are following the data and raising rates accordingly. Whether it is to fast or too slow, I have no idea. But their policies seem pretty effective as it has helped bring about 8 years of a growing economy, lowered unemployment dramatically and helped pull us out of a depression.

I hope Trump keeps the streak going. Deregulation probably helps. Tariffs seem to run counter to his goals.

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Facebook down again today.

Yesterday it took out the 20 and 50 day MA (moving averages), but closed at the 50 day MA indicating there might be support there.

However, that was not to be. Today as I post FB has now sliced through the 200 day MA.

Not good, but it has improved somewhat from this mornings earlier low. This will be interesting to watch as it is affecting the entire market.

FB Chart:

http://schrts.co/nXEx4x

JC

Honeybee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
frankj said...

Natasha Lulu: Your definition of dollar cost averaging is the accepted one. Bob seems to have invented the phrase "dollar cost average on weakness." He left weakness undefined which prompted considerable discussion on this blog.

On another topic, yesterday's Facebook decline is an example of the good and the bad in market weighted index funds. Because of its market cap, Facebook is right up there in top holdings of large cap index funds. When the company stock takes a hit, the whole fund feels it.

I'm bargain hunting today.

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Honeybee,

It has been quite some time since we have heard from our great friend, learned econometrician, investing expert and spiritual advisor Bacon Boy. Hope he is OK.

Do you think he could weigh in and give us his definition of the term "trickle down"?

JC

Honeybee said...

.
LOL! I'm sure that our friend Pig will weigh in sooner or later.

Last I saw him, he was incognito and waist deep in a mud-pond defending "Mom, Apple Pie, and the American Way."

Anonymous said...

C. Schwab was the guest on Maria Bartiromo Wall St week, said stock market still the best long term way to "critical mass".....always cringe when I hear "only fed govt can "print" money.....$$$ really created by bank loans and adding more zeros into the computers IRWIN in Skokie

Gawd said...

natasha lulu said...
"Can someone please give me their best estimate of what Bob means by:
"dollar-cost-average on weakness"
I am sorry, but I thought on dollar cost averaging, you would put the same amount of money in on, for example, the same day of every month.

Does this mean, when the market is down 5 percent put x amount of money in. Then when it is down 10 percent put the equal x amount of money in, and down 15 percent put the same amount of........I can't figure out what "dollar-cost-average on weakness" could actually mean.

HELP Please
LTS"

natasha lulu, I would say that even if in your example the stock market was up 5% in one of those subsequent months or intervals where you are investing that way, a dollar-cost-average approach would mean you put the same x amount of money into the market. I don't listen to Bob's entire radio show from start to finish often anymore and instead I am a Marketimer subscriber and I usually catch up on his radio show here via Honeybee's blog. But my recollection of how he characterized a dollar-cost-average approach is to divide the money you have earmarked to invest in the stock market into (12?) equal portions and invest each portion into the market monthly over the course of a year, if that is the interval you have chosen to do it, "rain or shine, up or down", regardless of what is happening in the market in a given month.

The same would also apply if your dollar-cost-average pattern is ongoing year after year and not about dividing a set amount of money into 12 equal portions over the course of a single year, via regular investments from your paycheck, as in a 401K account.

This would absent a significant "Attractive For Purchase" call/bulletin being issued, where you might then choose to put all of whatever money you have earmarked for stock market investment, or a large percentage of it, into the market all at once during that time. The regular paycheck purchases would probably not apply there however.

The confusion about what Bob means by "dollar-cost-average on weakness" might be due to the fact that perhaps he sometimes says it that way on his radio show during a discussion of notable market weakness, when there is a contemporaneous context for him to say it that way (again, I don't hear him saying it that way because I don't listen to his entire show very often anymore). Otherwise, the way I recall him stating it as his official recommendation and in written form in his Marketimer or Special Subscriber Messages is this way:

“We recommend a dollar-cost-average approach for investing new stock market money, especially during periods of market weakness.”

I think the key word there is "new". He is not talking about what to do with the third, fourth or fifth equal portion of money you have earmarked for stock market investment during the third, fourth or fifth month of doing it after you have already committed to a DCA approach. He is not saying you should try to "time" each of those monthly purchases for some moment when the market seems "weak". After all, that opportunity might never happen over the course of several months after someone has decided to start DCA investing.

He is talking about an investor's decision for what to do with "new" money earmarked for stock market investment, whether to invest it in a lump sum, half this month and half next month, dollar-cost-average over the course of several months, a year or whatever. That being the case, I submit that Bob Brinker means he is "especially" high on his general recommendation to start dollar-cost-averaging that "new" money during periods of stock market weakness. The message being he is "especially" high on his contemporaneous recommendation to DCA new money into the market during periods of market weakness, not about what to do with each of those equal portions you have already committed to a DCA routine.

Bluce said...

Anon mentioned Charlie Schwab being on Maria Bartiromo's show.

I found it on Youtube, was 3-4 days ago, I assume this is the same show. There were three separate clips; on one of them Charlie mentioned that he WAS a Republican.

So now we know: Liberal Bobby rarely mentions his "friend" Chuck or any of his funds because of his political affiliation.

Honeybee said...

.
This blog may be a lot of things, but it is not a garbage receptacle for all the filthy Fake News stories out there.

To the person or persons who keeps sending that garbage to me - STOP NOW. You are wasting your time and mine!!!

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Honeybee,

Are you in need of protection?

I have a broad assortment of guns stored in the armory and they have been itchin' for a road trip.

Just say the word.

JC

Honeybee said...

.
Jerrod.....LOL! I was just saying to a friend today that I was overdue for a trip to the target range.

Thanks...it's nice to know I have backup if I need it. :)

Biker said...

Prime Money Market yield now 1.63%.

rjb112 said...

natasha lulu said...
Can someone please give me their best estimate of what Bob means by:
"dollar-cost-average on weakness"
I am sorry, but I thought on dollar cost averaging, you would put the same amount of money in on, for example, the same day of every month.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dollar cost average means exactly what you said.

Investing "on weakness" is a form of market timing.

How Bob Brinker combines the two terms and what he means is anyone's guess.

People pay $185/year to get his advice, and he owes it to subscribers to be clear and understandable.

"Dollar cost average on weakness" is not clear nor understandable


Robert

frankj said...

Robert, I agree with you on the DCA, despite GAWD's lengthy explanation of it above.

12 month CD rate 2.05% through Vanguard.

Wayne said...

Lets see if the market bounces off the Feb 9th lows. A good time for investing new money? Some say, what new money if we're 100% invested. I have a little to invest.

Unknown said...

"12 month CD rate 2.05% through Vanguard"

Maybe I am comparing apple to orange. However, I wonder whether using almost $50 principle to make $2.05 of earning is really that great.

The S&P is now down more than -1% ytd.

Money flow is negative for Friday.t Choppy market going forward will likely build up worries enough to weigh against the market.

Those who are looking for S&P to hit 3,000 will have to wait a little longer.

After all, politics dictate economics.

Gawd said...

Blogger frankj said...
"Robert, I agree with you on the DCA, despite GAWD's lengthy explanation of it above."

I would agree with it, too, if I'd ever heard Brinker say it that way; "Dollar cost average on weakness"

But my lengthy explanation was an attempt to contrast the way I recall hearing him say it on his radio show and the way he writes it in my $185 per month Marketimer subscription vs the with the way it is repeated here. When you see the way he writes it in his Marketimer it is not contradictory or particularly confusing unless you miss how he frames the statement, where he places the comma and his use of the words "new" and "especially", all of which is usually missing when I see what is written here.

Again, it has been a long time since I listened to his entire radio show so I have no idea if or how often he simply says "Dollar cost average on weakness" when he talks about it these days. But I trust by how often it is quoted that way here it must be the way he says it on quite a regular basis.

Honeybee said...

.
EXCUSE ME GAWD! Frankj is exactly right!

And I'm getting tired of your not-subtle insinuations that I am not 100% truthful.

Here is the EXACT quote, including punctuation from Marketimer. See what kind of way you can spin this:

Mrch 5, 2018, Marketimer, Bob Brinker wrote:

" We are taking a patient view toward 2018 mid-term election year stock market activity, recognizing that a dollar-cost-average approach, especially during periods of market weakness, is the logical strategy for investing new money unless a confirmed buying opportunity develops at some point during the calendar years. We view the most likely 2018 scenario as one which avoids a bear market decline of over 20%."

Honeybee said...

.
Note to Pavlov's Cat...All of your speculation about what caused the market drop today would have been published if you had not left out one item.

That item was the fact that the FOMC raised interest rates - in spite of the fact that there is not even whiff of inflation.

And adding insult to injury, they promised to just keep on raising.

Nope, no bias there.....

Gawd said...

"..a dollar-cost-average approach, especially during periods of market weakness, is the logical strategy for investing new money unless a confirmed buying opportunity develops at some point during the calendar years."

I can't see any reason to spin that quote, Honeybee. I see the framing, the comma and the words "new" and "especially" all present and accounted for as I mentioned is the way I have always read it in his Marketimer and recall hearing him say it on his radio show.

Honeybee said...

.
gawd....

Whet the hell are you talking about? Are you accusing me of "spinning" Brinker's DCA on weakness advice?

If so, I think your time here is about done. I don't have time nor inclination to spend defending myself against that kind of garbage.

Gawd said...

No, Honeybee, I assume Bob Brinker does say it the other way on his radio show, which would not be in sync with the way he generally states it in his Marketimer, because, after all, that is the way natasha lulu posed her question about it. So I have no basis to assume she was misquoting him anymore than you or others here. Apparently he does say it that way often enough on his radio show to prompt questions about it here. I have no basis to assume natasha lulu was deliberately misquoting him than you or anyone else.

frankj said...

hung wong: there are investments where you can make more interest than a 12 month CD paying 2.05%. A fixed income bond fund of the type BB recommended for a long time has short a duration. They achieved their yield he mentioned by taking credit risk which was pointed out here many times.

As I see it, a bond fund fights some headwinds: credit risk, duration, expense ratio and inflation. As investors we choose the fund with the credit risk, duration and expense ratio we can tolerate.

I choose not to take on the credit risk of a low duration bond fund. I have monitored short duration funds and the net asset value is eroding. A CD only fights inflation.
and, they are insured. Some would say, "what about interest rate risk?" (the risk rates will be lower when a CD matures). Yes, there is that but we seem to be in a rising interest rate environment now. The 12 month CD was offered at 1.90 just a couple weeks ago at the Vanguard website.

In a few months the lowest rung on the CD ladder will mature and I will roll it into a 12 month CD. I expect the rates will be a little higher yet.

Jim said...

Regarding the tariffs and the drop in the stock market I think what we must deal with is some short term pain to get the long term gain. I think once we get our trade situation more balanced the market will realize that it wasn't such a bad thing after all.

Honeybee said...

.
gawd....As has been pointed out many times, Brinker does not even try to explain what he means by "on weakness" - even when he is asked.

There have been times that a (usually rich) caller will ask about it, and Brinker will make some effort to tell THAT PERSON how they might do it with their time, money, etc.

But in general he just uses the words "dollar-cost-average."

It's pretty doggone hard to misquote or spin that - even if one tried.

And as I've said before, I put quotation marks around direct quotes - otherwise, it is paraphrase or my own interpretation of what was said.

I used to transcribe more than I do now. I had dictating software that stopped working and I have not replace it. It's fairly expensive - and was a gift.

Qmavam said...

So what does Bob consider a retest of the lows.
He uses the S&P 500 as his gauge, we got within 63 points of the Feb 8,
low of 2,581.
Is he waiting for the S&P to rise a certain amount before a buy alert?

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Gawd said:
"But my lengthy explanation was an attempt to contrast the way I recall hearing him say it on his radio show and the way he writes it in my $185 per month Marketimer subscription vs the with the way it is repeated here.'


Oh My God, Gawd!

You are forking over 2,220 Buckaroos per year to THAT Bob for "MarkeTimer?" Is that a gilt-edged private client "millionaire edition" or something?

JC

Biker said...

Lamont said: "So what does Bob consider a retest of the lows."

Yesterday's S&P500 close was still 2.4% above the Feb 8 closing low. Not sure that is close enough to be considered a retest.

However, from what I can tell this time around the market seems to be falling on lower volume. Can anyone confirm whether the present volume is lower than during the Feb 5-8 timeframe?

If so, that is one positive indicator for a successful retest according to That Bob.

Gawd said...

lol. No, Jerrod. That was meant to be "$185 per year monthly Marketimer subscription.."

And, actually, I pay (as I recall) $10 more per year because I live outside of the USA and there is an extra charge for overseas mailing. Of course, I rarely wait until it is snail mailed to me. I read it on his website the day it is posted.

Jim said...

Well, here we go. The S&P closed on Feb 8 at 2581 on volume of 5.3B shares while today it closed at 2588 on 2.5B shares. So the close was <1% from the initial low and it was on lower volume. IMO this meets Brinker's criteria of a retest. If he doesn't issue an "attractive for purchase" bulletin then one of his other indicators must tell him it's going to break down further.

Anonymous said...

S&P avg volume on last sell down (2/5 thru 2/9) was 3.47 billion; today's volume about 2.5 billion which is what we want to see. Selling exhaustion.

Today, 2585.89 low we tested the waters at just above the 200 day moving average of 2584.44, probably need to probe a little deeper early next week.

If you are a buyer of this market wade in slowly - DCA in is what I did today and yesterday. Today I added 4x more than yesterday. Will double today's buy if we test lower.

The prices I am seeing on what I want to buy are still above the last selloff... but it is getting close.


Tax cuts and earnings are the positive for this market.

Fed is a neutral... Trump could easily tell Powell to back off raising rates with more pauses till inflation looks like it is less benign.

Go back to that piece I linked on Laksman Achuthan for an insightful differing look at the macro (gdp): https://share.insider.thomsonreuters.com/link?entryId=1_m3q9vap3&referenceId=1_m3q9vap3&pageId=ReutersNews

Trade wars may not be all that bad... in the end all sides have lots to lose. I think the admin. is including a provision to kick tariff issue to the WTO.

1.3 Trillion spending bill signed into law - ridiculous considering...

ugly debt clock: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Lots of cross currents.


smile

Anonymous said...

Whoa Nellie, I just heard CNBC recap of the week... so today apparently China is threatening scale back of purchase of our treasuries in response to tariffs levied against it.

I was wondering when they would pull that card. That is a biggie... considering our debt situation...

Wow to the tenth power.


smile

Anonymous said...

Sorry for the multi posts HB, but I just listened to the Laksman link a little closer and the GDP chart he brought up does not reflect in my mind what he stated.

Laksman said his chart was Year over Year, and I call foul. It could not be because if it was it would show a slight incline not a decline from quarter to quarter progressing thru 2017. I caught the error because I knew the YOY numbers never approached 3% as shown below. As we discussed here GDP YOY is still stuck in the low 2's but as 2017 progressed there was a slight increase as follows YOY using the 1.26.18 chain weighted output data which is not the latest but close enough:

2.0010% Q12017 YOY
2.2060% Q22017 YOY
2.2994% Q32017 YOY
2.4989% Q42017 YOY

Just wanted to clarify in case someone went to the link and got scared looking at that chart.

It looks like that chart he is using is the quarterly annualized GDP numbers not the YOY growth figures Laksman said it represented.

Keeping them honest - doing my part.

As I stated in past discussion we should be looking at the YOY number not the bogus quarterly annualized fiction.

Laksman's other points may be valid but on this one I call foul.


smile

J Wales said...

If the upside is 20% or more I guess its buy time or close. If this is a bottom it would most likely mean we will set an all time record for an economic expansion length.

Unknown said...

Volatility climbed back and high enough to provide support for a recovery.

Expect a good Monday.

The NDX fell over 7% this week.

Anonymous said...

Market up +16% since President Trump took office. Not bad. Sure beats Obama’s performance.

Mel


Anonymous said...

I’m going to file your comment under wishful thinking. Perhaps President Trump can break the trend?
Every Republican president since Teddy Roosevelt endured a recession in their first term, according to an analysis from Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist at stock research firm CFRA.
Four Republican presidents suffered through two recessions while in office and Republican President Dwight Eisenhower presided over three.
Meanwhile, Democrats have largely skated past the recession quicksand. Four in five Democratic presidents saw no recessions during their terms since 1945, Stovall says.

Over to you,
Nite Owl

Gawd said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Market up +16% since President Trump took office. Not bad. Sure beats Obama’s performance.

Mel"

Not sure why anyone would calculate stock market performance starting from a presidential election (or inauguration) date. The stock market has always continued on the exact same trajectory without notable alteration from what it was already doing well before each of those dates for every new incoming presidential election going back as far as there is data for it, including the most recent election and inauguration.

However, the stock market does often move into a different trajectory soon, usually only days or a few weeks, after that administration's first major economic legislation is finally signed and passed. And that makes total sense. After all, that is the forward looking market's first impression and understanding of what is likely in store for the economy going forward.

In the case of this current administration, 90 days after the passing of its first major economic legislation, essentially today, the stock market is down (-) 3.5%. In the case of the previous administration, 90 days after the passing of its first major economic legislation, the stock market was up (+) 15%.

Gawd said...

Nite Owl, you're right. The only recession that began during a Democratic presidential administration since those post-WWII years (I would put it more like 1948, not 1945) was the barely more than one quarter long controlled one that began in early 1980 during the Carter presidency. But that one was purposely induced by Carter-appointed Fed Chairman Paul Volker and was not the result of a poor economy or bad legislative policy. Quite the opposite. He began raising Fed Funds/Interest Rates starting in late 1979 in order to cool down an overheated economy that was producing many more private sector jobs (Carter's presidency is third place for the modern record high in average annual numbers and percentages for that. Only Clinton and LBJ are ahead of him) than there were applicants to take those jobs; producing wage inflation and the often resultant hyper inflation.

It worked, too. By June of 1980, hyper inflation began to steadily decline, month over month, and continued to do so with only a few predictable upticks here and there over the next 3-4 years.

Anonymous said...

Don't freakin' panic. If China won't buy our rock-solid gold-plated middle class taxpayer-funded Treasury bonds, then screw 'em.

Let's boycott THEM! We can sell our best-on-the-planet debt obligations to any wine-drinking, cigarette-smoking country's leaders for a reduced price, giving a higher yield to our new friends.

Just invite them to visit good ol' America. They will dig our standard of living and good ideas about not being a dirt-poor political septic tank. I guarantee, they will sign up for the America plan immediately. We have nothing to feel shameful about.

I'm so tired of Chinese junk purchased at Walm-mazon breaking down.
Aubrey, Needles CA

FYIT said...

Trump may not appreciate one particular Chinese advantage, should broader trade wars develop, China can probably endure a lot more pain than the United States. China after all is essentially a dictatorship in which the government controls the media and much of the economy. The United States is not and the stock market will render prompt and unfavorable judgment on Trump’s tariffs if a trade spat mushrooms into something more like a war. It might be prudent to prepare for collateral damage.

Anonymous said...

.
Mel, maybe you were in a coma during the Obama years? Or maybe you watch fake news?
The Vanguard Total Stock Market index was +243%.

Betty Boop

Anonymous said...

Aubrey, too bad US Treasury markets don't think like you do.

The real world works like this: if the Chinese play hard ball and do not buy our debt that means in the supply demand equation an oversupply. Econ. 101 says when there is an oversupply the value goes down... since bonds work with an inverse relation between price and interest rate... when the price goes down the interest rate goes up...

you can also think of it as... to entice others to buy the rate has to go up.

what kills bull markets - you guessed it higher interest rates

Some say the Chinese do not hold enough of our paper to make a difference or that others will step in to buy if the Chinese don't - to that I say good luck with that theory.

The mirror tariff concept seems like a good ploy on the surface if the matter is brought in front of the WTO and handled fairly. Some say the WTO is useless but the alternative of a trade war with a country that buys even a Trillion of our debt is not a good bargaining position in my eyes. I could be wrong.

The funny thing is that by buying our debt, the CHinese inflate the US dollar relative to their currency which makes goods cheaper for them to export.

I feel you on the poor quality of products coming in from China... although I did buy a real nice case for my Samsung Tab A which was made in China. So to that I say you get what you pay for most times and then again sometimes you don't even get that.


smile

Anthony said...

S&P 500 down as of March 24, 2018 about 9.89% (or 10.0%) from its all time peak, and it is down 4% for year-to-date.

The S&P 500 just dropped below its 200 day moving average.

CNN Fear-Greed index is 7 out of 100, meaning Extreme Fear.

Theoretically we are in correction territory.

AD

Biker said...

Technically we have remained in correction territory since Feb. 8.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/stop-saying-the-dow-is-moving-in-and-out-of-correction-that-is-not-how-stock-market-moves-work-2018-03-23

Quote: "...an asset doesn’t switch in and out of correction, it remains in that phase until it breaches a fresh peak or falls sufficiently enough to be deemed in bear territory, defined as a drop of at least 20% from the peak."

Anonymous said...

Betty Boop said:

"Mel, maybe you were in a coma during the Obama years? Or maybe you watch fake news?
The Vanguard Total Stock Market index was +243%.

Betty Boop

March 23, 2018 at 9:18 PM"

_____

smile says: LOL Betty Boop - well stated. The statement by Mel was so wrong on its face I thought it was a joke. That is how I took it. The sad part of that is there are some that would accept that lie/joke or whatever it was as fact out of ignorance and/or possibly hate.

Sort of the same problem Face Book is having to deal with.

I thought Gawd (I hate that moniker but to each his own) did a fairly good job of presenting the facts of when you start the count and destroying the lie told by Mel.

To further separate fact from fiction here are the stats for Obama:

from the market bottom at 3/9/09 to 1/20/17 the end of Obama's presidency the market was up significantly:

S&P +16.63% annualized

To put this in da Brinks total return terms:

S&P +236%

3/9/09 market bottom used instead of 1/20/09 inauguration date because it was after the signing into law of Obama's significant legislative Recovery Act. But if you wanted to use start date of 1/20/09 the stats show Obama still ahead 13.83% annualized or 182% total return.


=====

For Trump we have from inauguration day 1/20/17 to current 3/23/18:

S&P +11.81% annualized

or again to use the Brinks total return terms:

S&P +14%

Quite a difference in favor of Obama using the correct facts.

We must hold ourselves and those that work for US or represent US to real facts.

smile

Anonymous said...

China is not our friend. They talked nice while ripping us off. Past politicians have allowed and even enabled China to do so. We need to stop being as dependent upon them as we are. Nothing good will ultimately come of letting them continue to play us. Now Xi will use force to try to get us to submit to his imperialistic ambitions. And I am skeptical we have the strength of will required to endure the temporary pain of divorcing ourselves from what is an abusive relationship.

MK

Bluce said...

Smile: You're comparing one year of Trump against eight years of Obama? Do you like to compare apples to oranges a lot in your spare time?

Destination X said...

Seems like a good bet that BB will be on live tomorrow if for no other reason so he can gloat about his prediction regarding the negative effects of a potential trade / tariff fight / war.

Honeybee said...

.
Destination....It is an assumption that "tariffs" caused the market dip.

It could just as easily been the Fed raising interest rates even though there was not a hint of inflation.

Bluce said...

DX: Bobby "gloat"??? No way! He isn't capable of gloating!!! He is the most honest, humble, straight-forward man out there.

[rolleyes]Yikes.[/rolleyes]

Jim said...

Instead of bashing Trump about tariffs again I think Brinker will talk about the budget deal and bash everyone in Washington saying they are spending money like drunken sailors.

Ms. Topes said...

Looks like the DOW and the S&P 500 made a successful retest in the vicinity of the lows of February with weaker volume so we may hear an "attractive for purchase" signal from Bob real soon. Possibly today.

Bluce said...

Jim: Me thinks yer right.

LOL @ "Drunken sailors." When I was a kid I got a 50¢ weekly allowance. I would go shopping with my mother and buy maybe three 10-12¢ comic books, some candy of course, and come home with a few pennies.

My Depression-era Dad would yell at me, saying I was "Spending your money like a drunken sailor!"

Haha, love ya Dad, may you RIP. You taught me a LOT -- by example -- about saving whether you know it or not.

Anonymous said...

Bluce said...

Smile: You're comparing one year of Trump against eight years of Obama? Do you like to compare apples to oranges a lot in your spare time?

March 24, 2018 at 3:52 PM

____________

smile said...

Bluce, my response to you here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZJYVZRU0AA0B4w.jpg


smile

Jerrod Clarkson said...

Bluce:

Wonderful post!

JC

Bluce said...

smile: No linky, no looky.

Tnx JC!

Anonymous said...

Bluce,

If you are scared to look at my response to Bluce link provided, you can always use this annualized return calculator and see for yourself the error of your post.


smile

rjb112 said...

I think the market timer award has to go to Jim for his Friday comments on this blog, below. Then we have today's incredible rally

Robert

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Jim said...
Well, here we go. The S&P closed on Feb 8 at 2581 on volume of 5.3B shares while today it closed at 2588 on 2.5B shares. So the close was <1% from the initial low and it was on lower volume. IMO this meets Brinker's criteria of a retest. If he doesn't issue an "attractive for purchase" bulletin then one of his other indicators must tell him it's going to break down further."

March 23, 2018 at 1:12 PM
+++++++++++++++++++

Diogene505 said...

After the stock market takes a nose dive BB will take credit for raising cash to buy low by having recommended the MetroWest Unconstrained Bond Fund / Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund swap. Pure accident. I don't know why his newsletter is called Marketimer. I haven't seen any market timing since 1999-2000. It should be called the Buy and Holder

Davewil3 said...

I was expecting a buy signal bulletin from BB on March 26 . It sure looked to me like there had been a successful test of the Feb 12 bottom. But no bulletin, and today the market dies again. Hope we will hear from BB his reasoning.