Sunday, September 25, 2011

September 25, 2011, Bob Brinker's Moneytalk: Summary, Excerpts, Commentary and Discussion

September 25, 2011....Bob Brinker hosted Moneytalk today............(comments)

STOCK MARKET....Brinker did not talk about what's been going on in the stock market today.  It may or may not have anything to do with the special online bulletin he issued last Thursday.  The S&P closed at 1129 that day.

We know that Bob did not issue a sell signal -- he's bullish and fully invested.  Bob Brinker's Marketimer target range prediction for the S&P has been low-to-mid 1400's since March 2011. He increased the time-frame in August from  "this year" to 2012.   My friend, Jim, has a theory that makes absolute sense to me:

Jim said...
I think Brinker is waiting to see what the market does. Brinker will only mention the bulletin if the market rallies from here. If it does not, he will cover it up like all his other failed buying opportunities.
September 25, 2011 4:18 PM
BOND MARKET....Bob said the quality bond market is at record highs. Treasuries yields are at record lows. Honey EC:  It's been ages since Bob took any questions about muni-bonds, general obligation bonds or I-Bonds. He no longer recommends  TIPS, Treasury Inflation Protected Securities. Earlier this year, he sold out the weightings in his fixed-income and balanced portfolios. 

SAFETY OF INVESTMENT FIRMS....Caller Don from Massachusetts wanted to know if what happened at UBS could happen at  institutions like Fidelity and Vanguard.

Bob said: "You have to understand that UBS has a trading desk where they trade for the banks account. And that is risky situation. Now  it's not unusual, most of the major banks are going to have a trading desk...... That's  not what you're looking at when you're looking at a mutual fund company.......A mutual fund company has a group of mutual funds, in the case of the companies you mentioned, a very large group of mutual funds for investors to choose from and it's the same situation where they are out there trading for their own account or speculating for the market. So my reaction to that question is that it's an apples and oranges situation.  Now if you said what about Citigroup, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of trading going on at places like that and that is part of the equation."

SAFETY OF MONEY MARKET FUNDS.... Caller Don followed up with a question about money market fund safety. Bob explained that any investments in money market funds that are not dollar-good are going to cost either the shareholders or the management company.  He said that those are the only two possible resolutions, and that is why he recommends dealing with very large companies.  Large companies are more likely to make good any break-the-buck losses.

REFINANCE HOME TO TAKE EQUITY OUT....Caller Steve from California asked Bob what he thought about his plan to re-finance a $300,000  home loan  on his $600,000 property  and borrow an additional $100,00 so he'd have more liquidity in case he lost his job. Bob agreed that would be acceptable if he wanted the extra money for a safety net and was willing to pay 4% for liquidity -- and if it was invested  prudently.

Honey EC: It surprised me to hear Bob give his okay to borrowing extra money on a primary resident to invest. As I recall,  Bob has always been very against doing that. 

LUMP SUM OR ANNUITY? ....Caller Maria from California asked Bob which would be better for her, a sizable lump sum retirement payment or a generous annuity.  Bob asked her for all the details and then told her that it really comes down to whether she wants to increase her net worth, and have more to leave to her two sons, or take the yearly annuity which paid 31,000 a year.   

WASH SALES RULE/TAX LOSS TRANSACTIONS....Caller Roger from Tucson wanted to know when was the best time to sell a stock for a tax loss. Bob said that both ends of the transaction have to occur within the same calendar year.  And you have to allow 31 days to elapse, so late November is the latest you can sell  in order avoid the "wash sale."   Bob  explained that if you are worried the market might go against you, you can buy  double of your shares, hold them for 31 days and then sell half.

KEYNESIAN SPENDING.... Caller Josh from Naples said that Bob was "mistaken" when he said that  "certain talk show hosts" equate the country failing with politicians failing. Josh said that half the country is against "fundamental change" by Keynesian stimulus. Bob literally shouted Josh down repeatedly until he finally shut up. Bob shouted "This is important, since Keynes can't speak for himself."   He said that  what the politicians have been doing is not what John Maynard Keynes wrote about.  Bob called Keynes a "genius."

Honey EC: At the beginning of the government stimulus packages, Bob clearly said it was Keynesian economics and repeatedly raved about how it was needed and was a great thing to do. 

VANGUARD GINNIE MAE FUND TOTAL RETURN....Caller Arthur from Oregon said the fund was showing a 6% interest rate for the year. Bob explained that the 6% was total return and  would include the increase in net-asset-value.  Bob said that Vanguard's expenses were very low.  Honey EC: So are Fidelity and Charles Schwab's Ginnie Mae Funds. 

GREECE SOVEREIGN DEBT....Bob spent close to half of each of the first two hours of the  program discussing Greece and European sovereign debt issues. Greece may default on its sovereign debt. He cautioned that their banks could be nationalized and investors could  lose 100% of their capital.

EUROPEAN STABILITY MECHANISM....Bob also reported that the establishment of the "European Stability Mechanism" may be sped up to come to the rescue of European economies.    From Businessweek: "European governments are exploring accelerating the start of a permanent rescue fund for their economies, with senior finance officials set to examine this week the cost advantages of setting up the European Stability Mechanism, or ESM, a year earlier than its July 2013 start, according to a document prepared for the meetings and obtained by Bloomberg News."  All of the news that Bob reported on is available online. Here is  link to several headline news stories.

Bob's guest-speaker today was Charlie Maxwell, oil analyst from  Weeden and Co.   I will try to write more about this interview during the week, but you may want to download the interview from KGO 810 radio. It is archived in the 3-4pm time slot. (It's free)

52 comments:

Pig said...

Bob Brinker is hosting Moneytalk today

OH WHOOPIE DOO!

That certainly makes my day.

If he didn't show up, would anybody notice, other than you, Jeff, David, AC, junior (if he was sober and awake) and impy?

Out of 310 million people, I betcha I could count the disappointed sheeple on two hands and my 4 feet.

Let me know how many times he mentions
BULLETIN BULLETIN BULLETIN with hints about a toilet paper rag named market timer for a measly $185, and that you can't survive in this economy WITHOUT that POS., BLAH BLAH BLAH.........BLAH BLAH..........

Honeybee said...

Precient Pig,

You are correct. Bob Brinker seems to be retired on the job. However, he did not mention the "Special Online Marketimer Bulletin" today

MOF, if alien space travelers arrived and got all of their information from Moneytalk this afternoon, they would have a difficult time figuring out that the stock market even exists.

Brinker didn't want to chance someone slipping in a question that would force his had to admit that his bulletin is just a shyster ploy to sell newsletters.

Jim said...

I think Brinker is waiting to see what the market does. Brinker will only mention the bulletin if the market rallies from here. If it does not, he will cover it up like all his other failed buying opportunities.

Honeybee said...

Good point, Jim! That never occurred to me, but I totally believe you are right.

There are others besides Bob Brinker who think the market is due for a rally here real soon.

As usual, we all hope they -- and Brinker -- are correct. :)

jeffchristie said...

Honey

Last weeks Moneytalk was great show. I found today's to be rather boring and not very worthwhile. I don't envy you writing it up. With apologies to Mr. Pig you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Kirk Lindstrom said...

Jim
I think you have Brinker figured out!
Check-out this Bob Brinker Marketimer Bulletin History

There have been MANY bulletins since the first in October 2000 but very few of them are ever mentioned on the radio. I think that list and the graph of the market shows why.

jeffchristie said...

"Caller Josh from Naples said that Bob was "mistaken" when he said that "certain talk show hosts" equate the country failing with politicians failing. Josh said that half the country is against "fundamental change" by Keynesian stimulus. Bob literally shouted Josh down repeatedly until he finally shut up."

I listen to a lot of talk radio and have never heard a host say he wants this country to fail. Last week I remember certain talk show host who wanted President Obama's newest proposal raising taxes to fail. This guy even said that the people who came up with this idea were dumber than a box of rocks. Sorry Bob but not everybody wants to eat Barrack Obama's dog food.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Kirk's advertising piece says,

"Someone in the Marketimer office said they had over 200,000 of these to get out."

Nobody has ever verified this and I see its still referred to as Brinker's subscriber base.

Totally unfounded and unverified gossip IMO

Whocounts.

Honeybee said...

Anonymous who posted about Charlie Maxwell. I published your comments and then noticed that you did not sign them, so they were deleted.

If you want them published again, you will need to either set up an account or sign with a handle of your choice.

birdbrain said...

I write this morning to thank Bob Brinker. That is not a misprint.

Back in the mid 1990's he recommended on the show a fund to consider as part of one's international equity exposure, the T Rowe Price New Asia (PRASX) which invests in companies in the Far East ex-Japan. The fund has taken shareholders on quite a ride over the last fifteen years with three separate declines of 55%+. In fact after the first freefall in 1997 Mr B never mentioned it and stopped speaking about the fund. Sounds familiar, does it not?

I've used the shares as a trading vehichle ten times over those years and have done quite well with mostly solid gains, three big winners and one trade I'd like to forget. I've been off the roller coaster since last year (sold too soon again) as the NAV is on the high side, but patiently await the next big drop before averaging my way on board for another ride.

So, for introducing me to this fund
(though not for long term as I'm sure he intended), again I would like to thank Bob Brinker.

Senior.
The occasional radio guy, not the Twitter guy.
Yeah, that's him.

Anonymous said...

Birdbrain: ditto New Asia. I own and owned it.

Great pea brains think alike.

-- Frankj

birdbrain said...

Frankj:

Can your pea brain spell "vehicle"?

My bird brain can't.

Honeybee said...

Okay, on a lighter note. I hope that Obama fans won't be offended and can actually get a chuckle out of this (If I get any Bushism jokes, I will post one to even score.) :)

At Silicon Investor, Locogringo posted:


"Obama is on the West Coast now, harvesting money again and closing roads in Los Angeles after doing the same in Seattle and San Jose Sunday"

Rush asked people to call him at his town hall today and ask him how long it took for Jewish janitors to build the intercontinental railroad from the 57 states to the country in Europe that speaks Austrian.

Dan G said...

A very nice bounce today on less than spectacular volume. There could be more to come, as the indexes are still close to oversold. Needs a little more "work" in my opinion before an agressive short postion would be warranted.

Some might say today was a "follow-through" day. No way! Not enough volume, and way too soon after yesterday's rally off the correction lows. An optimum follow through would not happen until at least Wednesday. And should happen by next Monday. If earlier or later than that 4-7 day window, it's not considered an optimum follow through and is more subject to failure.

At least that's the view from Sunnyvale!

Anonymous said...

Shoot'em down to protect the President.

Fighter Jets Intercept Small Plane Over Santa Cruz

Fighter jets punched through the Santa Cruz skies and shook the ground Monday around noon, because of a plane that had violated restricted air space while President Barack Obama was in Mountain View, according to Army Col. Mike Humphreys of the North American Aerospace Defense Command in Colorado Springs.

"There were four separate incidents over San Jose," he said, counting Santa Cruz in that airspace.


AGEA

Honeybee said...

Fighter Jets Guarding Obama Intercept Planes Over Santa Cruz Mountains

smile_1 said...

CNBC's Liesman, reporting out of Euroland on the details of the Euro. bazooka package to save the PIIGS (specifically Greece) was what caused the rally. As one might imagine they are supposedly taking a page out of what we did here with TARP and using the leverage of the banks. I'm already hearing cold water thrown on that idea... saying it will not work for them... some technical reason. One might ask oneself why this model is just now being discussed after 18 months... maybe it was and rejected.

Macro US news vacuum and EOM window dressing should add some lift, but not if PIIGS problem rears up again. Seems to me like we should have been testing the 1100 level since that was where the firewall was placed last dip.

Even though it might be painful it would be interesting to see what the Brink. would say or not say maybe take the day off next Sunday if his bulletin buy call fails on an 1120 break.

Anonymous said...

re: Fighter Jets Intercept Small Plane Over Santa Cruz

Heck Obama legacy would probably be better remembered if it had ended up there. It will be interesting to see, but I suspect when the dust settles this will be regarded as one of the most corrupt administrations ever. I hope when this idiot is out of office he is dogged like Nixon was and forced to lay low.

If re-elected and the Republican hold the House I would guess some sort of impeachment proceedings will begin.

tfb

Anonymous said...

Birdbrain:

"vehicle"

Woo spelt it rong?

I DO usually have to pause on it though. Also on "separate" and "signature"

BTW, are we going to have to launch Inhaler Timer? Word is those inhalers won't be available over the counter at some future date.

-- Frankj

Anonymous said...

Frankj:

The One was in Seattle yesterday, I guess. There was a picture of him getting off the plane at Boeing Field.

I think it is ironic (moronic) that his National Labor Relations Board is suing Boeing Corp. for wanting move part of its Dreamliner operation to South Carolina -- and he lands at Boeing Field.

I know why he landed there, because the Secret Service could lock it down easier than SeaTac Airport, but still ...

Faster to fly than to take the Intercontinental Railway.

smile_1 said...

"As one might imagine they are supposedly taking a page out of what we did here with TARP and using the leverage of the banks. I'm already hearing cold water thrown on that idea... saying it will not work for them... some technical reason."

===

A number of major hurdles with the grand rally starting Euro PIGGS solution not that they cannot be overcome:

1) The funding bank they want to leverage is chartered for 2:1 leverage - they need at least 8:1

2) 17? Euro members have to approve the solution

3) funding @ 1

4) some have speculated that there is a trillion of this garbage debt out there which the Euro banks have not marked to market - some say it is double that - ouch

the above may make no difference to the markets tomorrow, but ya never know... listened to Kudlow's show after mkt closed so this is paraphrased from memory.

p.s. they are determined to solve this problem, but it is not an easy fix

investor said...

Give the guy credit where credit is due. So far the bulletin is on the mark. The trading range is correct and the call as to the EU having to act. I know their were no sell calls to raise cash in order to buy. But so far as we can see he is an important voice to listen to. Not perfect by any means.

jeffchristie said...

investor said...

"Give the guy credit where credit is due. So far the bulletin is on the mark..... Not perfect by any means."

I have no problem giving him credit when it is deserved. But he should also be held accountable when he is wrong.

Sunday, July 31, 2011)

(Brinker's comments summarized, paraphrased or quoted)

STOCK MARKET....Brinker said: "Isn't it amazing how the stock market has taken all of this in stride. I was looking at the S&P 500. It's actually setting about 5% below its closing high for the year, which is truly amazing.....This is resilience when you look at this kind of political drama out of Washington DC......Remember we had a caller when the market was at 1268 at the end of June who asked whether he should sell out of the market because of the debt ceiling debate......Of course, the market is now at 1292, a couple of percent higher than when that call came in at the end of June. So this is what happens. If that individual would have sold out at 1270 at that time, he would be faced now with either sitting it out or re-entering at a higher level."


Honey EC: In spite of the year-to-date figure that Brinker used to make his point, the stock market has had six straight days of losses -- the Dow falling 581 points or 4 percent. The S&P 500 Index closed at 1292 on Friday, down 3.9% for the week. (Here is a link to the call that Brinker referred to from the June 26th Summary.)


Brinker continued: "And certainly we've seen some nice dollar-cost-average opportunities this past week in the market. I must admit on Friday I was taking advantage of some of the bargains that were out there with the market in the 1200's, reacting to this hyper-drama out of Washington DC. I know many of you also have been taking advantage of the dollar-cost-averaging opportunities on short-term weakness - and certainly it's minor. I mean, 5% is really noise when you look at the market over time.......If you've been listening to this broadcast, we have not been part of the panic-brigade here on Moneytalk.

Honey EC: Note that Brinker said he was buying this past week. Well, he must mean with his own money because all of his Marketimer model portfolios are fully invested. The last time that he said on Moneytalk that he was personally buying stocks was on the April 2008 show. He said he was buying at low-1300's. At that time, he had also called a new market bottom and issued a Marketimer buy-signal at the low-1300's. Of course, the market just kept on dropping, all the way down to 677 in March, 2009:

Honeybee said...

Investor,

I'm part of a market-timing guru contest. I, along with several others in the contest, predicted the upturn.

It's a silly game, but Bob Brinker has found a way to get rich on playing it.

The contest means nothing, just as Brinker's silly "attractive for purchase" while fully invested means nothing.

Here the latest leader board on the contest I play in.

And here's the thread title so you can read about it and see the results for prior months.

Honeybee said...

Smile,

Thanks for the comments on the European situation....

Honeybee said...

Why would anyone subscribe to a newsletter and pay almost $200 a year for advice and not follow it?

So let's assume that most people who have subscribed to Marketimer for the past eight years actually followed Bob Brinker's advice. What does this latest "market attractive for purchase" special bulletin mean to their pocketbook? Anything? I doubt it.

* They have been 100% invested in equities.

* They have no "new money" unless they found the winning lotto ticket or Aunt Tillie died and left it to them.

* If Aunt Tillie's money arrived by January 2008, they bought the S&P in the mid-1400's.

* Not to fear! If it arrived any time during 2008, Brinker offered them buy-signals in the 1300's and 1200's.

* Any new money from salaries or other income has been dollar-cost-averaged when there wasn't a buy-signal.

So this latest buy-signal is just more snake-oil salesman hocus-pocus with only ONE purpose: a full pocketbook for the salesman.

As Kirk Lindstrom said:

"He's been doing this for over a decade. If the buy signal is good, he takes calls praising him for it after the fact then repeats it on the radio over and over. If it is a dud, like his gift horse buy in the mid 1400s after the market was in the 1500s.... you won't every hear it mentioned on the radio."

Anonymous said...

"I'm part of a market-timing guru contest. I, along with several others in the contest, predicted the upturn.

It's a silly game, but Bob Brinker has found a way to get rich on playing it."

Aren't all of those market forecasters the same? I mean isn't it really a silly game for ANYBODY to rely on in real life?

Nobody can predict the future so why should you listen to anybody who says they can?

Picking stocks is the same thing too because you just forget about the bad ones. It's all pure luck and anybody who says other wise is lying IMO

HalA

birdbrain said...

Frankj:

I find your latest venture most interesting. He won't come cheap, but picture this:

Bill Clinton relaxing in a chair with three beautiful women at his side. Cue voiceover

"He is...the most interesting man in the world."

Clinton: "I don't always inhale, but when I do I consult the Inhaler Timer."

Sounds like a winner.

Pig said...

* Not to fear! If it arrived any time during 2008, Brinker offered them buy-signals in the 1300's and 1200's.

That's what I like so much about Charlatan Brinker's calls. If you miss one or two, you'll get another one to help you lose money.

He gave people 2 chances with the QQQ, and several buy in opportunities in 2008, as you stated.

But the best thing about him is that when you lose your ass following him, he doesn't rub it in, or ever remind you about it. That's pretty classy, doncha think.

I see impy is back in town. I hope he remembers to answer my simple question on how some sucker.......errrr............I mean,..... subscriber did if he/she followed ALL of Brinker's advice.

He will answer it, won't he? He's sooo smart and stuff.

FrankC said...

I’m so glad I found your blog. Like so many people here, I was burned following Brinker’s “gift horse” opportunities. The worst one of all, I invested the proceeds from a house sale into the market during his February 2008 “bargain level prices” call near S&P 1330. Luckily, I took my blinders off and got out at S&P 1070 when the global meltdown was in full effect. Otherwise, I would have ridden the market all the way down like the rest of Bob’s obedient followers. It is only through my own due diligence and study of the markets that I’ve managed to recoup my losses during the past two years. I am happy to say that I’m no longer “shark bait” for the Marketimer newsletter. I still occasionally catch Bob’s show for the entertainment value, and your blog helps keep me up to speed. Keep up the good work Honeybee!

smile_1 said...

My pleasure Honeybee,

random thoughts below... be careful :)

Market action today shows how tentative that BS news was yesterday from Leisman. Mkt started off strong and faded to the close on news out of Europe that someone was not too sure of the plan. Sure wish CNBC had done a better job in reporting this. Possible bull trap. Maybe in combination with Euro leaders shooting themselves in the foot and kicking the can down the road we can get these idiot traders to stop blowing this market up on speculative news of a fix... cause as posted it ain't gonna be easy. If you looked at the results of our Tarp - those toxic assets are still on the balance sheet somewhere fed or banks or both - Europe has a capitalization problem if I am reading this correctly - who are they going to get capital from - Germany? Also Germany and France are the only triple AAA rated economies in that mess - will the ratings agencies drop their rating for G&F if they bankroll this mess. They need private equity to bank or China combo. - if it were that easy it would have been done by now. Maybe if we downdraft and test that 1100 level we can get the ol' Brinkster to eat a little more crow on his recent special bull_etin.

Anonymous said...

Maybe if we downdraft and test that 1100 level we can get the ol' Brinkster to eat a little more crow on his recent special bull_etin.

October beckons and it looks menacing. I have avoided buying on these dips expecting a hit in October. Time will tell, but at my businesses things have slowed a lot the last 60 days. The best I can tell mommy an daddy are tightening the purse strings to build up some Christmas spending money as my retail businesses are hurting but the B2B stuff is still strong.

tfb

Honeybee said...

I don't know where this happened. It's a Spanish speaking country, but it's an amazing short video of a HERO who pushes a van off a train track.

I wondered why he ran back across the tracks instead of going forward with the van. It almost cost him his life.

Herotraintrack

Pig said...

I can tell mommy an daddy are tightening the purse strings to build up some Christmas spending

That's not looking too good right now, either.

(Reuters) - Best Buy Co, the world's largest consumer electronics chain, will cut its hiring of temporary workers in the United States this holiday season by almost half compared with 2010.

BAH HUMBUG

smile_1 said...

amazing van/man/train video Honeybee,

thin line between heroism and stupidity

===

here is what took down the 300+ point rally yesterday - comment from German Finance Minister Schaeuble:

Silly idea per Schaeuble

"If we would increase the figures, and I don't really understand how anyone in Brussels at the Commission can have such a silly idea...the result could be that other member states...lose their AAA rating," he said.

Credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's had warned when talk of leveraging the EFSF first became public last week that such a move could potentially trigger ratings downgrades for leading euro zone countries Germany and France.

===

I'm going with Geithner's statement in the Interview by Cramer that they (Euro countries) will not let this fail - ie. Lehman Armaggedon trade mostly off the table doesn't mean the process will not be ugly - it also doesn't mean that at structured default may be part of the deal- like I said if it were an easy problem to fix - it would have been done by now. :) dip buyer

Anonymous said...

Birdbrain:

I like the idea of using WJC and the babes. He qualifies for pitching products to the older generation, like Ed McMahon and Andy Griffith, but he still brings that rogue image which we need.

We could also do an ad with him sitting at a large desk, with papers on the desk (presumably copies of InhalerTimer). While he intones, the viewer is listening, but also wondering if he is wearing trousers while seated at the desk.

Apologies to HB and any recent or first time visitors to her blog, who might be wondering just what the heck is going on here!!

-- Frankj

Pig said...

Yo, Senile_1, speaking of silly ideas, whatcha think of the genius Democratic Governor Bev Perdue's brilliant idea about suspending congressional elections?

Is that the only way that you Libs can think of to stay in office?

Your bunch is creative, I'll hand you that.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/new-audio-nc-governor-struck-serious-tone-on-suspending-congressional-elections/

Dan G said...

I'm starting to get worried because taking money out of this market each day is getting to be like taking candy from a baby! And that's when things usually start to go wrong. So rather than act cocky about it, I'm goint to be extra careful tomorrow.

In any case, today was mahvelous, simply mahvelous! Not one but TWO day-trades. The first in SDS (double short S&P) and the second in DXD (double short Dow). Both were profitable and I'm going home "flat" again tonight.

Day-trading is kind of fun, but kind of nerve-wracking too. I'd much rather be cranking out long term gains, but you have to take what the market offers. And it's offering volatility lately in spades!

smile_1 said...

pig_SLAP,

well certainly a piglet con-artisan can't get any dumber than Perry - who may still be at the top of the Republican ticket run for prez. Geez Louise how bad do you all hate Romney LOL. Heard a joke that Bush was the smarter version of Perry - now how dumb does that make Perry? I think most would agree that would be pretty dumb. But not to worry you all would not know brilliance if you tripped over it.

Perry's 1st job if elected would be to find the WMDs Bush could not find in Iraq.


SLAP

Anonymous said...

Anybody remember Rande? Looks like he's wrong this time.

Taxable vs. tax-deferred

As a general rule, it’s usually better to sell long-term investments held in taxable accounts instead of taking money from tax-deferred accounts before you have to, according to Rande Spiegelman, a CPA, certified financial planner, and vice president of financial planning for the Schwab Center for Financial Research.

“Withdrawals from traditional IRAs and 401(k)s are taxed as ordinary income — typically at a higher rate than the preferential long-term capital gains rate,” said Spiegelman, who has written extensively on the subject. “What’s more, tapping your IRA means losing opportunities for tax-deferred compound growth.”

Read Spiegelman’s article “What’s the best way to withdraw money from my savings?”

But this general rule could be hazardous to your after-tax income and after-tax wealth, according to Lewis Coopersmith, Ph.D., an associate professor of management sciences at Rider University, and Alan Sumutka, CPA, an associate professor of accounting at Rider University as well as the owner of Alan R. Sumutka, CPA.

Aieka

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/best-ways-to-draw-down-retirement-accounts-2011-09-29?siteID=mktw

Dan G said...

Hey kids! Stop squabbling and wake up! This could be a "follow-through" day in the making!

The price change is right, and it's coming within the 4-7 day window following (and including) the first rally day. All we need now is lots and lots of volume. To early to tell about that yet, but it's worth watching.

I've taken a very small "pilot" position in DDM, So far, not so good, but we've got all day. Might add more...might not.

Honeybee said...

I don't agree, but it does look like the author of the Marketwatch article may have something to sell:

Read Rande Spegielman's Charles Schwab article before deciding who's right and who's wrong.

The Bob Brinker fan who sent the post as "AIEKA" has been a long-time Rande-hater.

Rande Spegielman is a highly respected CPA, certified financial planner, and vice president of financial planning for the Schwab Center for Financial Research.

Anonymous said...

"I don't agree, but it does look like the author of the Marketwatch article may have something to sell:"

What are you talking about? The author isn't trying to sell ANYTHING.

He is merely comparing Rande's approach to other academic studies that differ?

Did you miss this article?

http://www.fpanet.org/journal/CurrentIssue/TableofContents/TaxEfficientRetirementWithdrawalPlanning/

Don't be so quick to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

Aieka

Honeybee said...

The housing market appears to be bottoming. It may be Time to Admit it

Dan G said...

Yep, Rande is a good guy...even though he despises market timing!

Looks like no interest in the market here. That's ok, since the rally has already begun to fizzle. But it's still too early to tell. Meanwhile, I'm going to start looking at "shorts" again.

Honeybee said...

DoubleLine Total Return Fund (DLTNX), Bob Brinker's recent addition to his income portfolio is doing well.

The fund manager, Jeffrey Gundlach says we are already in a recession. I don't think the facts bear that out, but it could happen:

By Mary Pilon

The country is already in a recession, according to bond manager Jeffrey Gundlach, who predicted “there’s going to be a big loss in Europe.”

Bloomberg News
Bond-fund manager Jeffrey Gundlach sees dark times ahead for the U.S. and Europe.

The much-watched head of Los Angeles-based DoubleLine Capital addressed a crowd of roughly 100 financiers and reporters at the New York Yacht Club this afternoon. Surrounded by miniature model yachts and clad in a red tie and grey-plaid suit, Gundlach reinforced his often dark views about the status of the U.S. economy and future for Europe.

“We’re in a recession right now,” Gundlach said, as he reviewed a hefty deck of slides with dreary data. Statistics on the polarization of wealth in the U.S., dim headlines about sentiment in locales abroad and the European bond market were among the reasons Gundlach cited for his dour forecasts.

The presentation was among Gundlach’s first public appearances since a decision in a contentious lawsuit between him and his former employer, Trust Co. of the West. The jury came back earlier this month with a split decision, in a saga that spanned months, involving gossip and allegations of pot, porn and mortgage-backed securities. The trial was not mentioned during Gundlach’s speech.

Echoing the sentiments of many money-managers, Gundlach said that the Eurozone is bound for problems. “I don’t know what is going to happen,” he said. “But I think there is going to be a big loss in Europe.” DoubleLine has no investments in Europe, he said.

He then flashed a chart of 10-year sovereign debt spreads for the so-called “PIIGS” (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain) and circled their recent spike in red. Next to the spike he wrote “These are crashes, why no understanding of that?” in red ink. Greece’s spreads showed signs of woe as far back as February 2010, he said.

As for what’s ahead in the United States, Gundlach pointed out that the rally in the municipal bond market was helped by many states not having a choice but to balance their budgets.

Read more: WallStreet Journal

Anonymous said...

Daytrader Dan,
You must live far away from the track or casinos!!! Can't wait to place that next bet, eh?

SeaBiscuit VIII

jeffchristie said...

Here is a quote from their article:


"Older Americans should not blindly follow either the tax-efficient or the common rule-of-thumb retirement withdrawal plan. Rather, they should crunch the numbers each year to determine which approach would yield the greatest after-tax wealth over a long-term time horizon. And more often than not, this exercise will suggest that the better approach is the tax-efficient one, the authors say.

The conventional wisdom rule is most likely the best thing you can do if you planning one year ahead,” said Coopersmith. “But the tax laws look out over a longer horizon. So, because of the brackets in the tax law and other things such as capital gains, there are definite advantages of violating that rule under various conditions which are not obvious to most people.”

When it comes to the tax code it is hard to plan longer than one year out. I have no idea of what the capital gains rate will be in 2013. How can you crunch the numbers when you don't know what one of the key numbers is.

Honeybee said...

Anybody want to tell me what the market is going to do tomorrow?

I'm tied for the top slot and tomorrow is the last day for the Guru Contest this month.

If anyone has a crystal ball, puullleezze help me. :)

Silicon Investor

Anonymous said...

The housing market appears to be bottoming. It may be Time to Admit it

Not sure how delicately I should say this. There are several areas of the country that barely felt the housing collapse. There were a few markets I have tracking where the prices essentially did not move.

One key is very low overall taxation, little to no income tax and low property taxes. Most of these areas had higher sales taxes and are in the middle pack or better in terms of State financial health.

In general these were area with populations greater than 95% white (thought some areas did well that were 87%) and that had a heavy solid Republican tilt (at least 60-40). Each one of these areas currently has a net inflow of population and are growing in the numbers of people moving there and are bolstering the Republican ranks.

tfb

Dan G said...

"Anybody want to tell me what the market is going to do tomorrow?"

I think I can help you Honey. I believe the market will fall about 240 points! So go double short and you're bound to win!

You're very welcome!

- Dan